Trustwell Ceo: Business Intelligence, Data Analytics Are Senior Living Must-haves In 2025

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Data can make the difference between good and great operators, and Trustwell Living CEO Larry Cohen believes his company’s new data platform rivals that of REITs.

The New York City-based company is in 2025 helping its 42 communities make better decisions through sharing information such as occupancy, resident rates, revenue per occupied room, expenses, staff hours, time spent on tasks and lead volume. The company compares that data with a set of other communities – both in and out of its portfolio – to benchmark where they are in their respective markets. .

“It’s a way that we can make sure that we’re always improving our processes to be the most efficient and the best-in-class in all aspects,” Cohen said during a recent appearance on SHN+ TALKS.

Trustwell is also using the data to explore how to make its resident rates more friendly to middle-market consumers and explore sales trends like dynamic pricing. Currently, the operator is conducting surveys on caregiving, sales and marketing, staffing and scheduling. Using that approach, Trustwell has improved outcomes within its portfolio, including revenue and net operating income margins. That is evident in how the company last year grew occupancy by 12 percentage points at the first five senior living communities it acquired.

Cohen is the former CEO of Capital Senior Living, the operator now known as Sonida Senior Living (NYSE: SNDA). Over the years, he’s seen just about every cycle the senior living industry has endured, from its infancy in the ‘80s and ‘90s to the Covid-19 pandemic in 2020 and beyond. In 2025, Cohen – like many other senior living executives right now – believes the industry stands at the precipice of a years-long demand runway in the form of a looming age wave and record-low new supply.

At the same time, he sees a need for other industry players to reinvent what they do for a changing customer in order to raise the industry’s penetration rates, which currently sit at around 11% nationwide.

“We have to do a better job of getting residents in earlier and extend length of stay,” Cohen said. “We see the front door opportunity, but we have a backdoor issue as it relates to attrition and shorter length of stay.”

He added that he expects to see a “positive trajectory” for senior living companies in the remainder of the year in the form of more deals.

“We’re seeing more investor capital interested in the sector. On the transactional side, it will be an exciting year as well,” Cohen said.

The following is a transcript of Cohen’s SHN+ TALKS interview, edited for length and clarity:

Tim Regan: I think it was three years and a couple of weeks to the day that we last spoke on SHN+ Talks. It does not feel like three years ago. What’s the current state of the company?

Larry Cohen: Tim, thank you so much for having me. We have grown some since we last spoke. Trustwell was launched in 2021. Fortunately, I was able to assemble a team of professionals, many of whom I worked for many years at Capital Senior Living. We spent the first year looking at opportunities, but we were also very focused on making sure that we built systems, processes, reports to be able to have a foundation for our growth.

We acquired four buildings in May of ’22. We took on another building in December of 2022. Then in the summer of 2023, we took on 41 buildings in 90 days. You can appreciate how, for a newly formed organization – even for an established organization –it’s quite the task. I’m very proud of our team. To prepare for that, we had to hire a lot of regional accounting, back office, and corporate support. We had to make sure that we had systems in place to onboard staff. We always do a really thorough job of communicating with families of residents when we transition to Zoom calls, et cetera.

We took on the buildings. We really spent the last year fine tuning and building out our processes and systems. We had about 10 new hires last year. We had a lot of new positions to provide support and stay very focused on really making sure that we have best-in-class processes, people, and systems to support all of our disciplines, sales and marketing operations, clinical recruitment. It’s exciting to see what we have done.

The other aspect that we spent a lot of time and continue to do is on data analytics. In addition to what Trustwell provides, we have a very, very strong asset management group that provides a lot of data analytics.

That’s something that continues to evolve and allows us to really understand what’s going on. Our philosophy has always been to empower the leadership of the community to operate with autonomy, accountability, and responsibility. Data is a good way to trust and verify, as well as the way to provide a roadmap for leadership at the corporate level, regional level and community level to operate really all in sync and in tandem with an objective to provide outstanding care, services to our residents, to our staff, to our families and to our team members.

Tim: It’s the data piece that I was so interested in when we talked at NIC. You’ve said that the data analytic capabilities that you have rivals some of the things that the REITs have. Tell me more about how you built this database.

Larry: It’s interesting. I spoke last week with the largest procurement platform for senior living. The person I spoke with said, ‘I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I’ve never seen an operator with your capabilities.’ They’re including the largest of the largest. What we have done is we have taken all of the data that we can pull from every system supporting our communities and our regional and corporate staff – CRM, EHR, payroll – looking at how we match up. It’s very important that we have information.

We’re very proud of a culture where we were able to continue a trust level that we had at Capital Senior Living, which really is a very collaborative collegial environment where we include all different stakeholders in discussions. We do a lot of surveys. In fact, we’re doing a survey now on a time study on caregiving. We’re doing a survey on sales. We just completed a sales and marketing survey. We’re doing a survey on staffing and scheduling. We’re getting data from each community to understand exactly how each community [operates] because this is a very complicated business. People have to appreciate we’re a multi-state, multi-site operator in 14 states with 42 locations.

What we want to do is get best practices across the portfolio and learn from each other. We also do that for training and the way that we support our teams. Going back to your initial question, what we do is we take the raw data. We are able to put it in a format that is able to give us specific information on whether the payroll looks at punches and punches out part-time, full-time and benefits. We come up with staffing patterns for each community and we then benchmark each community against one another to see where we have common or anomalies. We look, obviously, at state regulations.

This is a process that involves clinical, involves operations, involves accounting, FP&A, HR, all these disciplines coming together to understand what are the best practices for staffing to make sure that providing the care and what type of shift: Is it 8 hours, is it 12 hours? Then we really get very granular to be able to monitor this within every pay cycle so that we’re making sure that we are adhering to it. Again, it’s a roadmap for the community to understand how to expect staff and making sure that we’re doing that.

We look at sales and marketing. We look at all the same trends that others do. We take all of our information for a CRM, and we’ll track our leads, quality of leads, where they’re coming from. We’ll look at speed-to-lead. We’ll look at conversions. I’m very proud, by the way, that we score really well on converting inquiries to tours and to move it. The opportunity is always to increase those inquiries. We look at channels.

We even measure speed-to-assessment because it’s very important in that sales cycle that as we have a “hot prospect,” we’re getting the assessment so that we can make sure that the family understands what the cost of the care is, and also get an assessment, because they are shopping other communities. In all our processes, we’re trying to incorporate next steps for all of the users to help facilitate a workflow that achieves a goal. We’re pulling data on recruiting. We hired a recruiter for the company to help because it takes a lot of the burden off the communities and the regionals.

We have done wage studies in each market. We’re able to take that information, take our payroll information, look at our wages. Not only do we benchmark against our portfolio, but we actually look at specific markets by position to see how we are bearing.

I saw your article talking about recruitment and how important it is to be competitive with benefits and with wages. That’s an important aspect as well when we think of that recruitment. We have gone through all of our referral sources. What percent are from organic leads, what are from professional referrals, what are coming from aggregators?

We then dissect the aggregated information to see every advisor, to see the volume each advisor is providing to each of our communities, and understand how we focus on those advisors that are providing the best support to our company or to our communities. The task that we do, like I said, is bringing in all of our disciplines and taking this data, creating the questions or what we want to do to absorb the data and how to interpret the data, and then how we act upon that data. Right now we’re doing studies across the portfolio. We did some pilot programming, it was very interesting.

Everyone’s looking at assessments. Are we properly assessing residents or billing to the assessment? We’ve gone further, but we’ve actually put out a survey with eight or nine tasks that every community will provide, and understanding a time study of how much time it takes for each of those tasks. Then we compare the aggregate time per resident to what the level of care is, and where we can see commonality, where we can see anomalies, and how we have to change our assessment process. We have a point system. Are we measuring properly for care that may take longer than we expect?

It also is important because it’s critical for staffing. This information is shared with families, it’s shared with communities, so that the executive director, the health service director, the regionals can all look at this information and understand actually what care is being provided to a resident. Then we have to understand, are we properly billing for that? It’s always easier to have those conversations with families when you have data.

I can go on and on for all the other areas in which we’re collecting data and taking that data and interpreting it and deciphering it. It’s a way that we can make sure that we’re always improving our processes to be the most efficient and the best in class in all aspects of senior housing.

Tim: I appreciate such a thorough unpacking of the data platform. In your mind, do you think that this is becoming a new differentiator, a new must-have? I almost see the industry separating into operators that have all of these capabilities and companies that don’t.

Larry: I do for a number of reasons. One is that the systems that support this industry, many of which came from multifamily, a school of nursing and not necessarily a senior housing platform. I think that a lot of those systems – CRMs, electronic health records, the whole accounting processes and systems – even if they talk to each other, don’t necessarily give us the analytics to drive the daily tasks. We found this as a necessity. We were asking questions, trying to pull it from our systems, and we couldn’t find it, information.

We had to tailor the information from those systems to support our operations. I think that there are two observations. I’ve been doing this for nearly 40 years. We look at the incredible demographic tailwind that the senior housing industry finally will have. As I said, I’ve been talking about it for 40 years, but it’s real now. You look at the number of people 65 and older, there were over 30 million back in 1990 and it’ll be 71 million by the end of this decade. You have 36% growth on the 85 and older population compared to 4%.

We know that, from the Great Recession, supply is at the lowest level it’s been since 2008. We saw coming out of the Great Recession, how resilient this industry was because there was growing demand with no supply. Demand is now on steroids compared to where we were back in 2008, 2010.

As we see a growing population, our cost keeps going up. It becomes less affordable. This middle-market question that everyone’s trying to deal with, and the fact that there is cost creep.

Now, we look at margins. We look at the reporting of public companies. Obviously, margins have compressed in this industry post-Covid. Rents are going up. We had some high inflation periods coming out of Covid. You had 8% to 10% rent growth for a couple of years. Maybe it’s moderating, but we’ve seen a recovery in rate. This is why we’re so focused on time and assessments and understanding exactly how we’re scheduling and what we’re doing on the care side, because 65% of our expenses are labor. Obviously, there’s a lot going on in the community, but the most important is the care.

What we’re trying to understand is how we can use and create real-life information to allows us to better staff our communities more effectively, more efficiently, and also drive the revenues for the care that we’re driving. It’s not coming out of the box from one of the systems that provide a solution to senior housing. You have to create that, it’s bespoke. I spoke to an operator yesterday who does a great job. We were talking about HR. The comment was basically, “Look, I look at punches, but I don’t really have the time or the inclination to look at all the data.

We let the communities operate with autonomy, and they take care of it.”

When you start going into data, you realize that every community is going to be different. It’s the little things that make a difference. As you grow and you can aggregate the impact of those savings, they become much more significant when we think of what it does – not only to our bottom line, but also how it allows us to better staff and better care for our residents. One of the surveys we did earlier this year was a sales and marketing survey to understand opportunities where we can improve our support to our sales and marketing efforts at each community.

What was really very pleasantly surprising. We scored much higher on the care satisfaction than any other service. In fact, there were comments about how our care is the best in our market, and that made such a difference. To do that, we have to make sure that we’re hiring the right people … we’re paying properly, but also we are adequately staffing and charging for the care that we’re providing the residents.

Tim:I think sometimes people talk about AI, but it’s like, “What are you really talking about here?” We just got an audience question: “Are you using AI anywhere in your process given all of that data? If you are, are there any experiments you can share?”

Larry: Great question. We’re using business intelligence.

Basically, what we’re doing is taking information, automating processes to provide the data. It’s not artificial intelligence necessarily, but it definitely is a way that we can automate the processes to provide the information and make it less manual. It improves the quality of the information, but also it streamlines and expedites the process to create the information. We are talking to a number of different sources right now, and that does include AI. We’re trying to learn as well and peel back the onion to understand what that really means when we think about AI.

People use it very freely right now. Obviously, there’s a tremendous amount of attention in financial markets about artificial intelligence and what companies will be able to really benefit from that. I think in Senior Living, we have seen it in some sales and marketing features where there’s some artificial intelligence that is used. We are trying to understand what we can do, particularly on the time assessment. There are some companies that we’re talking to that are starting to use AI for some of these disciplines, and it will look at incorporating it into what we’re doing, but we’re not there yet.

Tim: We have another audience question. Someone wanted to know, “What are the top two or top three data or business intelligence aggregation of tasks that drive smart decisions and thus have directly impacted increased revenue or NOI?”

Larry: The top two or three clearly are on the revenue side, making sure that we’re evaluating the care, how the care is being delivered, how it’s being assessed, charged for, and the revenue that’s being collected for that care. There’s an offset to the expense. Making sure that we’re using this information to really be very proactive in the staffing of our communities, and managing the payroll helps the bottom line. The third area that we’ve done a lot of work on is looking at the rates that we charge other communities.

We look at not only the competitive data and how we match up, but at our rent roll and how we may have residents that have been living in the community for many years. Because there’s a differential in that. We’re using the data. We also use a lot of competitive data to constantly understand our pricing, to make sure we’re competitive.

We just actually did a competitive analysis on six or seven communities to update that data. It’s not dynamic pricing, but we go down and go through a complete inventory of units and make sure that we’re properly pricing those units and capturing the revenue that way.

Tim: Good questions so far. Thanks to our audience members.

Are there any other aspects to a turnaround that we haven’t talked about, that are part of your process that you would share for us today?

Larry: Having data is great. A lot of times we don’t have that data until we’re operating. It’s the preparation for a turnaround. When we go in, the first thing we do is when we take our transition to building, we’ll meet with families, residents, 60 or so days before we transition the community to introduce Trustwell.

We’ll do Zoom calls with family members and really explain who we are, what we’re trying to achieve. We also get feedback from families about the services that they’re receiving. What’s interesting, the most frequent complaint we hear is about staffing and how upset they are because of contract labor and the inconsistency of staff caring for their loved ones.

We build that. We go in, obviously, we’re changing all the systems. That is a big role for training and opportunity to really work with the onsite staff, train the onsite staff on systems. Many times, properties didn’t have the systems – or any systems, quite frankly. We’re going from paper to digital, whether it be electronic health records, whether it be EMAR, our accounting programs, training business office managers or sometimes hiring business office managers. We focus very much on making sure we have the right local leadership.

A lot of time is really spent on developing the culture at the communities and holding people accountable. That is a process that takes time to roll out. Many times we have to build the sales and marketing functions. We’ve taken over buildings where there were no leads. We have to start from scratch and start to build up the lead sources and the funnel and lead generation. Then we bring in our sales and marketing. We put into effect our social media, our digital marketing, retargeting, CRM, email marketing.

We do very much work understanding professional referrals in that market and looking for organic leads. We’ll use referral marketing and other data sources. What we do really is we build all this data and performance, make sure that we have the right people in the right position, and provide them with a lot of tools. Very often, these are tools they never had before. The other thing that I think is really rewarding is in a number of these buildings, there have been loyal leadership that left under prior ownership that have come back to Trustwell because they heard in the market, like, “Trustwell has this great culture, and it’s a good place to work, and they care for residents.”

We’ve been able to bring back some of the EDs and sales directors and HSDs at our communities. It is a very, very focused process. We’ve had a lot of experience with it. The other thing we do is we incorporate capital improvements because a lot of these buildings are tired. Whether we do a complete renovation, or we do a refresh at the building, we have different models that we use, whether it be color schemes, flooring, lighting, painting, wall coverings, furnishings, so we can implement that into that.

Some lessons learned is that when we do complete renovations, it is disruptive. We have to understand what impact it has on the immediate occupancy of a building, when we take our building over, if we’re doing a major renovation. What we do is really focus on either cultivating or hiring, or retaining talent at the community and incorporating our systems and processes in a way that is user-friendly and helps drive success across these communities. Fortunately, we’ve had a very good outcome in these turnaround situations.

Tim: No doubt as a company that’s doing turnarounds, I have to assume that you have gotten people that have resisted what you’re doing and said, ‘Hey, we don’t think this is the best thing.’ How do you convince them? How do you get buy-in when someone says, ‘I’m skeptical of what you’re doing here?’

Larry: Great question. If something’s working, we won’t change it. Just because we have that change doesn’t mean every building has that change. Now, in turnarounds, a lot of times, there are things that have not been working, so there’s opportunity for improvement. We’ve already promoted leadership from acquired buildings into regional and corporate positions. People have seen a career path by joining Trustwell. We’ve come into situations where the prior operator controlled everything from the corporate office, and we like to have local autonomy. It could be a challenge and an opportunity.

We want leaders that like accepting accountability and responsibility. We do need to hold people accountable, and that sometimes will cause turnover because sometimes people don’t like being held accountable. There are other team members who really respect and appreciate that their leaders will be held accountable because they’re held accountable. A lot of it is communication, it’s education. As I said earlier, include all the local leadership teams in this decision-making process. We’re not mandating. We’re going through and discussing the why, the what, the who and the when.

By doing that, a lot of times you get buy-in because people start to understand, and having data helps because what happens is you can have conversations about why we want to improve one area. They think it’s going great, and then you share data, and all of a sudden it’s like, “Oh my God, I never realized that.” Now, you have buy-in to why you’re making a change. I think change is never easy. You have to do it in a way that you include people in the decision-making process, you’re a good active listener, you’re not just telling people.

I’ve always said, we’re not McDonald’s. We have 42 locations that are going to tailor their services, their menus, their programs, to their local market. The one thing we do with communities that not every community we take over at, we empower the residents. We form resident councils. We have committees that are involved in setting menus. Again, there will be changes, but we incorporate the residents, the caregivers, the leadership, the line staff, the food service director, and all these processes. Food’s a very important process. We use a food vendor. Many times we have to change that vendor. We have to change the procurement processes.We’re working with the food service director, we’re working with the executive director in helping train while making sure, though, that we don’t dictate their menu. If they’re doing a good job serving the residents, then we’ll keep that local culture, if you will. We will try to drive efficiencies and best practices in how it’s procured. Obviously, we have budgets. Most of our budgets very often will stay within their cost per meal, per resident day. We won’t make drastic changes. Sometimes it’s over time. What’s interesting is that when you get buy-in, there’s a lot of enthusiasm and support, and ownership in those changes.

Tim: In February, we had our Sales and Marketing summit. One of the hot topics from the event was dynamic pricing. Do you have any thoughts about the viability of something like dynamic pricing in senior living?

Larry: I think in certain respects, we’ve always done that. Let me explain our process on pricing. When we did our budgets this year, we went through the rent roll and looked at every unit in every building. We looked at where there were vacancies and how long those units were vacant. We do this during the course of the year, quite frankly. What we realized is that we do what’s called premium pricing, and we’ve done this for many years. What we’ll do is if we have a multi-story building, and the first floor is always the most attractive, people like being on the first floor.

We’ll have premium pricing on those units. In other words, just because it’s the same square footage doesn’t mean it’s going to command the same rent. Then in certain buildings where we have one-bedroom units and the competitors don’t, we’ll be able to price that in a way. We do think about every unit by location, by how long it was vacant or not, and demand, how we price it. A third-floor apartment studio may not have the same pricing as a first-floor apartment. That is how we set our prices going into the year. During the year, we reevaluate, and we look at each community.

We used to do calls every Friday for buildings that were below 85%. We would actually go through every unit every week in every building that was below 85% to understand what we needed to do to get above 85%. It wasn’t dynamic pricing, but pretty close to that, I guess. It’s very hard because of the care side and the level of care to be providing pricing like the airlines, like a hotel. That’s very simple. They have a rack rate. They know what their inventory is.

I’m actually booking a flight now, and it’s $98 because it’s a really quiet morning. The same flight a week later is $1,100. The airlines have that down. We don’t have that luxury because of the care. Level of care is very important. What we have done is we have not only looked at competitive analysis on care levels, fees, we’re also understanding the differences in assessment I mentioned earlier to make sure that we’re being paid for higher care. In many cases, we may reduce the lower care. It also drives performance because if you have lower care fees on a lower care, you’re bringing in lower care residents who have a longer length of stay.

That is all part of the pricing. We don’t call it dynamic pricing, but we are very, very thoughtful about pricing every unit in every community. I had a call yesterday with a community, and literally went through, we have a room export data showing every vacant room, how long it’s been vacant for and deciding, do we have to change prices on those units that have been vacant for a longer period of time? It also gives the community some specials that they can sell, and that creates traffic.

Yes, pricing is really important. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to automate it the way that other industries do because of the care component, but multifamily does it very well. The algorithms are in there so they can see by vacancy how they have to adjust to keep moving it. We’re not automating that, but we are definitely managing our communities and pricing to that type of a model.

Tim: As you mentioned, Larry, you’ve been in this industry for a very long time. Where is the industry right now? Do you think there is a danger of leaving demand on the table if it doesn’t grow supply faster?

Larry: Clearly we’re seeing an increase in demand. We’re seeing an increase of occupancy. The increase in occupancy, you look at the rates – 200, 250 basis points, year over year. Again, we’re trying to get back to pre-pandemic levels. Pre-pandemic, we were below 90%.

Right now, and this has been a stagnant number for quite a while, the penetration rate for senior living is about 11% of the senior population. We have to do a better job of getting residents in earlier and extend length of stay. I think that as much as there’s all this tailwind from the demographics, obviously, very little new supply and likely new supply will be limited for the foreseeable future.

We do see a change in the consumer. We’re seeing, because of the cost factors, people are delaying because either they can’t afford it, or they’re trying to be sure that when they move in. They can pay for their needs, but their needs are much higher at the time of moving. We see the front door opportunity, but we have a backdoor issue as it relates to attrition and shorter length of stay.

I see the numbers, and I think we have to see over the next few years, will we be able to keep residents in their homes long enough to keep those high levels of occupancy at a sustainable level? Because right now, we need more leads than we ever did. We need more move-ins, because we do have more move-outs, typically moving to skilled nursing or residents passing away. I think that we just have to be a little tempered in looking at this demand and understanding that. I think the immediate need is less the development, it’s the messaging of making families and residents or prospects more comfortable about moving in earlier.

We hear very often, “I only wish I did this sooner,” but people still will delay. I was on a call this morning with someone who re-engaged with a prospect that came and toured 10 months ago, and they’re back today, and now they’re moving in. I think that let’s get to a high sustainable occupancy level of, say, 93%, 95%. Then we can say, “Wow, we may have a problem.” Right now, there’s still available units. We’re not at that level. While the move-ins are highest ever, we do find that seniors are moving in with higher acuity and later in their life.

We just have to be thoughtful about what the net number is. Look, development will come back. I think that from my takeaway from NIC this year, in talking to lenders, they’re seeing better performance in their portfolios. Obviously, we see all the trends moving positively because of the growing demand and limited supply. It’s getting a lot of investor attention. I think right now, it’s still a good thing that there’s not a lot of supply because it gives us some more time to fill buildings that still have to get back to not only pre-pandemic, but to true stabilization. Then we can think about where we build. Not every market is the same.

I think part of the problem in prior periods is that too many developments were going in the same market, and just oversaturated a market. That’s unfortunate. I think we’ll get more discipline, better data, better information, and that will help. Long-term, when you look at these numbers, 5 million seniors turn 85 over the next decade. Historically, we’re growing 40,000 or 50,000 units a year, but now we’re down much lower than that. Yes, we’ll have to build more units at some point. We’re not there yet. Let’s first get to where the industry is 93%, 95%. Then I think there will be plenty of capital flowing to develop when people start to see the stability and the true need in the industry.

Tim: What is your take on the middle market? How do you think the industry can better capture that opportunity given all of this demand?

Larry: A lot of what we’re doing on the data side is trying to solve that problem as well, become more efficient. We’ve taken on some smaller buildings and smaller markets. It’s great to learn from operations that work well, that we take over in different markets or different sides. You start to see more of a universal worker. Every state regulation is different. Every local market wage is different.

There are going to be some markets, whether it’s because they have requirements for nurses, depending upon the task, and whether you need an LPN, whether you need a registered nurse, whether it could be a CNA, but it could be a med tech, makes a big difference. It’s only about $12, $13 an hour difference in pay scale based on regulations. In those markets where you could pass meds with a med tech, that’s going to be less expensive than in markets where you have to have a nurse doing the pass. It has to be an LPN to give you a difference of $12, $13 an hour. That starts to add up. Similarly, wages.

As I said, we do this data, and we don’t only benchmark against ourselves. We do wage analysis in each market because every market is different. I think that the middle market can be served well in those markets where you can find affordable labor, where you may have less regulation, and you may have lower costs to build. Then you can create a product, you can staff it, and you can make it work.

There are some markets where you’re just not going to be able either to attract the labor, or the regulations may be such that you’re going to be required to have a level of staffing, and you won’t be able to get enough revenue to support those expenses. I think it’s something that will work in select markets, but is unlikely to work in all markets because of other factors that have to be considered in operating the community.

A lot of our residents like to live with family, so you do have that local connection to their family. It may end up being that there are certain markets that become affordable, and you have more retirees moving to it. Again, maybe those children will move there as well. I think there’s going to be a difference market by market in the ability to be able to provide a lower-cost alternative.

Tim: Maybe in 30 seconds or less. What’s ahead for senior living in 2025?

Larry: I think it’s a good year. Clearly, we’re starting to see improvement in operations performance, we have growing demand, limited supply. I think that the opportunity, as I said, to have residents moving sooner, that will help. I think we’ll continue to see a positive trajectory this year. We’re seeing more investor capital interested in the sector. On the transactional side, it will be an exciting year as well.

Tim: Fantastic. Larry Cohen, this has been a great discussion. We’re out of time, unfortunately. I always enjoy talking with you. Maybe I’ll end by saying until the next time you’re on SHN+ Talks.

Larry: Thank you so much. Great speaking to you as always. I appreciate it.

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